Entrepreneurs de transports contre le covoiturage
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Entrepreneurs de transports contre le covoiturage
Canada : plainte compagnie bus contre organisme covoiturage
C'est en anglais, source http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LotsLessCars/ , un des yahoogroupes de Eric Briton, qui milite pour une réduction de la voiture en ville :
A Canadian Internet company that co-ordinates car sharing around the world could soon be shut out of Ontario if one of the province's largest chartered-bus companies gets its way.
PickupPal Online Inc. was launched less than eight months ago by two Ontario entrepreneurs who thought car sharing, if it could be made easier through the Web, was a noble way to reduce traffic congestion and air pollution.
The service is like an Internet dating service for drivers, matching up people who are going to the same place at the same time – anywhere from concerts to sporting events to corporate functions. Special mapping software helps them find the best route.
But Peterborough-based Trentway-Wagar Inc. says PickupPal is breaking the law because it helps drivers collect money by offering strangers a ride. The bus company even hired a private investigator to test out the service, posing as someone who needed a ride from Toronto to Montreal and negotiating a fee of $60 with a driver travelling from Simcoe, Ont.
Trentway lawyer Robert Warren of WeirFoulds LLP says such drivers aren't licensed to operate a vehicle for a public transportation service and, as a result, don't have to comply with expensive safety standards and insurance requirements.
"Any time anybody operates such a service and they don't have to comply with all these regulatory burdens, then it's unfair competition in my client's view," Warren said. "They do erode substantially what really is a low-margin business."
PickupPal currently has more than 100,000 registered users of its service worldwide, with about 10 per cent based in Ontario. The bus company wants PickupPal to stop its service and has asked the Ontario Highway Transport Board to make it happen. A hearing is scheduled for October.
Eric Dewhirst, co-founder and chief technology officer of PickupPal, was expecting the challenge. He said the company has not broken any laws and has no plans to back down. He said Ontario's rules for carpooling under the Public Vehicles Act are the strictest he's seen anywhere in the world, and go against the spirit of policy that encourages car sharing. This includes the creation of high-occupancy vehicle lanes on major highways.
"We're being innovative, and that's what Premier Dalton McGuinty wanted," Dewhirst said. "We're looking for someone high enough up to step in here and say, `We're going to review this, because it's just wrong.' What we're saying is let's be reasonable here."
It wouldn't be the first time the bus industry, and Trentway-Wagar, has cracked down on ride sharing in Ontario. Quebec-based carpooling company Allo Stop was taken to the Ontario transport board because of a route it ran between Montreal and Toronto. The service was banned in 2000.
"Do we just have to draw a big map around Ontario and say, sorry folks, we can't help you? That just doesn't make sense, and that's why we're going to challenge it," Dewhirst said.
PickupPal has become popular in British Columbia, parts of the United States and Australia.
People trying to get to and from work can use the service, but Dewhirst said it is targeted at people who need a one-time ride to an event and back.
It has been the official ride-share service for Edgefest and will be for the upcoming Virgin Mobile Festival in Toronto. The company is also in talks to support ride sharing to CFL games, and for employees and customers of Sears and Home Depot.
PickupPal initially earned revenues by collecting a 7 per cent commission on any fee negotiated between a driver and a rider. But in late June it stopped collecting a commission, deciding instead to earn its revenues from online advertisements.
The fact that PickupPal no longer earns a commission is irrelevant, Warren said. He said the drivers who use the service can still charge a fee, and there’s nothing stopping people from using the website to co-ordinate vanloads of people moving between Toronto and Montreal several times a day.
“Those are real dangerous operations. Those vans are not licensed, they’re not insured and don’t pass strict safety guidelines. PickupPal hasn’t picked up on the fact that their system can be abused,” he said.
Warren also took issue with PickupPal’s environmental claims. “The folks who are using the service are not stopping using their own car, they’re stopping taking the bus.”
Dewhirst said bus services such as those offered by Trentway-Wagar are essential, but they don’t go everywhere and don’t appeal to everyone. He said with gas costs skyrocketing and congestion getting worse in cities such as Toronto, people are beginning to gravitate toward car sharing as an alternative to getting around.
“And we don’t care if they exchange doughnuts to do it,” he said.
C'est en anglais, source http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LotsLessCars/ , un des yahoogroupes de Eric Briton, qui milite pour une réduction de la voiture en ville :
Bus firm calls online car pool illegal service
Point, click, ride
PickupPal currently has more than 100,000 registered users of its service worldwide, with about 10 per cent based in Ontario.
It has been the official ride-share service for Edgefest and will be for the upcoming Virgin Mobile Festival in Toronto.
PickupPal initially earned revenues by collecting a 7 per cent commission on fees negotiated between a driver and rider. It has since decided to earn revenues from online advertisements.
Trentway-Wagar seeks to stop ride-sharing site PickupPal from operating in Ontario
Aug 21, 2008 04:30 AM
Comments on this story (68) http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/482653
Tyler Hamilton
Energy Reporter
A Canadian Internet company that co-ordinates car sharing around the world could soon be shut out of Ontario if one of the province's largest chartered-bus companies gets its way.
PickupPal Online Inc. was launched less than eight months ago by two Ontario entrepreneurs who thought car sharing, if it could be made easier through the Web, was a noble way to reduce traffic congestion and air pollution.
The service is like an Internet dating service for drivers, matching up people who are going to the same place at the same time – anywhere from concerts to sporting events to corporate functions. Special mapping software helps them find the best route.
But Peterborough-based Trentway-Wagar Inc. says PickupPal is breaking the law because it helps drivers collect money by offering strangers a ride. The bus company even hired a private investigator to test out the service, posing as someone who needed a ride from Toronto to Montreal and negotiating a fee of $60 with a driver travelling from Simcoe, Ont.
Trentway lawyer Robert Warren of WeirFoulds LLP says such drivers aren't licensed to operate a vehicle for a public transportation service and, as a result, don't have to comply with expensive safety standards and insurance requirements.
"Any time anybody operates such a service and they don't have to comply with all these regulatory burdens, then it's unfair competition in my client's view," Warren said. "They do erode substantially what really is a low-margin business."
PickupPal currently has more than 100,000 registered users of its service worldwide, with about 10 per cent based in Ontario. The bus company wants PickupPal to stop its service and has asked the Ontario Highway Transport Board to make it happen. A hearing is scheduled for October.
Eric Dewhirst, co-founder and chief technology officer of PickupPal, was expecting the challenge. He said the company has not broken any laws and has no plans to back down. He said Ontario's rules for carpooling under the Public Vehicles Act are the strictest he's seen anywhere in the world, and go against the spirit of policy that encourages car sharing. This includes the creation of high-occupancy vehicle lanes on major highways.
"We're being innovative, and that's what Premier Dalton McGuinty wanted," Dewhirst said. "We're looking for someone high enough up to step in here and say, `We're going to review this, because it's just wrong.' What we're saying is let's be reasonable here."
It wouldn't be the first time the bus industry, and Trentway-Wagar, has cracked down on ride sharing in Ontario. Quebec-based carpooling company Allo Stop was taken to the Ontario transport board because of a route it ran between Montreal and Toronto. The service was banned in 2000.
"Do we just have to draw a big map around Ontario and say, sorry folks, we can't help you? That just doesn't make sense, and that's why we're going to challenge it," Dewhirst said.
PickupPal has become popular in British Columbia, parts of the United States and Australia.
People trying to get to and from work can use the service, but Dewhirst said it is targeted at people who need a one-time ride to an event and back.
It has been the official ride-share service for Edgefest and will be for the upcoming Virgin Mobile Festival in Toronto. The company is also in talks to support ride sharing to CFL games, and for employees and customers of Sears and Home Depot.
PickupPal initially earned revenues by collecting a 7 per cent commission on any fee negotiated between a driver and a rider. But in late June it stopped collecting a commission, deciding instead to earn its revenues from online advertisements.
The fact that PickupPal no longer earns a commission is irrelevant, Warren said. He said the drivers who use the service can still charge a fee, and there’s nothing stopping people from using the website to co-ordinate vanloads of people moving between Toronto and Montreal several times a day.
“Those are real dangerous operations. Those vans are not licensed, they’re not insured and don’t pass strict safety guidelines. PickupPal hasn’t picked up on the fact that their system can be abused,” he said.
Warren also took issue with PickupPal’s environmental claims. “The folks who are using the service are not stopping using their own car, they’re stopping taking the bus.”
Dewhirst said bus services such as those offered by Trentway-Wagar are essential, but they don’t go everywhere and don’t appeal to everyone. He said with gas costs skyrocketing and congestion getting worse in cities such as Toronto, people are beginning to gravitate toward car sharing as an alternative to getting around.
“And we don’t care if they exchange doughnuts to do it,” he said.
Re: Entrepreneurs de transports contre le covoiturage
Je viens de changer le titre, voir début du premier message, pour intégrer cette ancienne affaire
gargamel_bleu a écrit: http://www.lineoz.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8401 Lun Juil 25, 2005
Dix femmes de ménage organisaient leur covoiturage pour aller travailler au Luxembourg. Une société de bus les assigne pour «concurrence déloyale».
Soit dix femmes de ménage qui organisent un système de covoiturage pour se rendre cinq jours par semaine de leur domicile, en Moselle, à leur lieu de travail, dans les bâtiments qui abritent les institutions européennes de Luxembourg. Soit une société française de transports en commun qui exploite une ligne sur le même parcours. Si le monde tournait rond, on y verrait deux exemples pertinents de lutte contre la saturation de l'axe routier Metz-Luxembourg. On pourrait même applaudire des initiatives minimes mais salutaires dans la lutte contre l'effet de serre (194 microgrammes d'ozone par m3 d'air mesurés à Thionville le 28 juin, et 195 cinq jours plus tôt ; le seuil d'information des populations est fixé à 180 microgrammes/m3). Mais le monde ne tourne pas rond.
La preuve ? La société de transports accuse les dix femmes de ménage de «concurrence déloyale» et les assigne devant le tribunal de grande instance (TGI) de Briey (Meurthe-et-Moselle).
Constance. «C'est aberrant, absurde, ridicule», tempête maître Cécile Klein-Schmitt qui défend plusieurs des femmes de ménage poursuivies. «Sans parler des faits en eux-mêmes, mais seulement des fondements juridiques de cette assignation, je ne vois pas comment un magistrat pourrait donner raison à ce type de demandes.» Contactée à trois reprises par Libération, la société Transports Schiocchet Excursions n'a pas souhaité faire valoir d'argument contraire. Il faut lui reconnaître de la constance.
En 2003, elle avait déjà traîné les femmes de ménages devant le tribunal de commerce de Briey, qui s'est déclaré incompétent. L'entreprise a relevé appel avant de s'en désister et d'opter pour le tribunal de grande instance, devant lequel elle réclame la condamnation des femmes de ménage à 5 000 euros d'astreinte par «infraction» constatée au motif que le covoiturage constituerait «un acte de concurrence déloyale et parasitaire». La saisie des véhicules est également demandée.
Depuis plusieurs années, Schiocchet exploite une ligne de bus dédiée au transport transfrontalier de femmes de ménage, pour la plupart employées par la société Onet-Luxembourg. «Pour eux, à partir du moment où la ligne existe, on est obligé de la prendre», commente l'une des personnes visées par l'assignation. Début 2002, la société aurait constaté «une désaffection brutale» de son service.
Pour les femmes de ménage, l'explication est évidente. «Ils ont supprimé un arrêt de bus et en ont créé un autre qui n'arrangeait personne», expliquent en choeur Constance Serrano et Jeanne-Marie Lo-Giudice. «Dans le bus, on n'avait le droit ni de manger ni de parler, rien du tout», poursuit Martine Bourguignon. «Le soir, au lieu de venir nous chercher à 21 h 30, le bus arrivait à 22 h 30. Et quand vous faisiez une remarque au chauffeur, il vous traitait de pétasse», conclut Odette Friedmann. Les femmes de ménage sont descendues du bus pour monter en voiture. A tour de rôle selon des rotations hebdomadaires, elles transportent trois ou quatre de leurs collègues dans leurs véhicules personnels. Celles qui n'ont pas de voiture paient de temps à autre un plein de carburant. Le système leur fait gagner du temps et de l'argent. «C'est au moins moitié moins cher que l'abonnement mensuel pour le bus», qui s'élèverait à 110 euros selon elles.
La pratique a fait des émules. «Aujourd'hui, douze personnes prennent le bus. Avant, on était quatre-vingts», affirme Odette Friedmann. Schiocchet a calculé le manque à gagner : «1 996 800 euros» pas moins, entre janvier 2002 et décembre 2004.
Filature. Sans doute pour redresser la barre, l'entreprise s'est lancée dans une étrange stratégie commerciale qui consisterait, selon les déclarations des intéressées, à filer les véhicules des femmes de ménage lors des trajets domicile-travail. Elle a également assigné devant le tribunal Onet-Luxembourg.
«Ils nous accusent essentiellement d'inciter au covoiturage alors que nous n'avons aucun droit de regard sur le mode de transport de notre personnel, explique Frédéric Sirerol, directeur d'Onet-Luxembourg. Nous sommes atterrés par le comportement de cette société qui poursuit ces dames et les suit pour voir combien de kilomètres elles font. Ils ont aussi appelé certains de nos clients pour dire que nous nous mettions hors la loi en ce qui concerne les conventions de transport entre la France et le Luxembourg. C'est une façon de noircir notre image. Et ils font preuve d'un acharnement par la voie juridique très étrange.» L'audience devrait avoir lieu début 2006.
http://www.liberation.fr/page.php?Article=310126
Christobal a écrit:Le sujet a déjà été abordé, mais cet article apporte quelques éléments supplémentaires intéressants, qui ne plaident toujours pas en faveur de la société de transport !!!
http://www.lineoz.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7801
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